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	<title>Comments on: Muslim Madrasa Modernisation</title>
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		<title>By: Opal</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2008/10/31/muslim-madrasa-modernisation/#comment-27614</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Opal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 11:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[So tell me Ms Hashmi what is stopping muslims from sending their kids to government schools? I can understand private schools may not be an option but why are parents willing to send their kids to madrassas where they know that the kid is not gng to learn any skill other than being a maulavi or some equally unproductive occupation? My opinion is it has nothing to do with lack of schools (our country has an enrolment rate of over 90% at elementary level which wld not be possible without enough schools). The problem is in the mindset of Muslim parents who cling to a religious education rather than being open to secular education. They are also obsessed with keeping their daughters perennially repressed and oppressed so they don&#039;t value education for them.  You would do better to work among your community to convince such parents of the value of secular education rather than unnecessarily spewing venom over schools run by some Hindu NGOs. And as to Hindu prosletysation! Really, are you kidding me? You seriously going to tell me with a straight face that it is ok for muslims and christians to prosletyze but not ok for Hindus to do so in our own country??  How do you think we have muslims and christians in our country except for aggressive proselytisation by these foreign religions! If you had the brains you will realise that some ancestor of yours was converted from Hinduism (either brainwashed or forced to convert to Islam) so if you are ok with that, you better be ok with Hindus doing the same.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So tell me Ms Hashmi what is stopping muslims from sending their kids to government schools? I can understand private schools may not be an option but why are parents willing to send their kids to madrassas where they know that the kid is not gng to learn any skill other than being a maulavi or some equally unproductive occupation? My opinion is it has nothing to do with lack of schools (our country has an enrolment rate of over 90% at elementary level which wld not be possible without enough schools). The problem is in the mindset of Muslim parents who cling to a religious education rather than being open to secular education. They are also obsessed with keeping their daughters perennially repressed and oppressed so they don&#8217;t value education for them.  You would do better to work among your community to convince such parents of the value of secular education rather than unnecessarily spewing venom over schools run by some Hindu NGOs. And as to Hindu prosletysation! Really, are you kidding me? You seriously going to tell me with a straight face that it is ok for muslims and christians to prosletyze but not ok for Hindus to do so in our own country??  How do you think we have muslims and christians in our country except for aggressive proselytisation by these foreign religions! If you had the brains you will realise that some ancestor of yours was converted from Hinduism (either brainwashed or forced to convert to Islam) so if you are ok with that, you better be ok with Hindus doing the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Khan Mushtaq Khan Sarfaraz Khan</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2008/10/31/muslim-madrasa-modernisation/#comment-4113</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Khan Mushtaq Khan Sarfaraz Khan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 07:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafilabackup.wordpress.com/?p=1260#comment-4113</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It needs to be remembered that the “venerable” congress leader ‘Pandit Ravi Shankar Shukla’ had invited the RSS to Madhya Pradesh to proselytise among the tribals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It needs to be remembered that the “venerable” congress leader ‘Pandit Ravi Shankar Shukla’ had invited the RSS to Madhya Pradesh to proselytise among the tribals.</p>
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		<title>By: Regardless</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2008/10/31/muslim-madrasa-modernisation/#comment-3879</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Regardless]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 11:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafilabackup.wordpress.com/?p=1260#comment-3879</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[hindus and muslims are supposed to criticize their own society more than each other&#039;s in order to prove themselves as self-critical, civilised communities. just because hindu right wing exists in india doesn&#039;t mean problems with muslim societies should be blown under the carpet. the problem of islamic terrorism is not a fantasy. the kashmiri movement is quite islamic right-wing, which is even acknowledged by arundhati roy. how many so-called muslim liberals stood up for salman rushdie in india? the hinduisation of tribals is a kind of right-wing phenomenon which is similar to the culture of conversions in monotheistic religions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hindus and muslims are supposed to criticize their own society more than each other&#8217;s in order to prove themselves as self-critical, civilised communities. just because hindu right wing exists in india doesn&#8217;t mean problems with muslim societies should be blown under the carpet. the problem of islamic terrorism is not a fantasy. the kashmiri movement is quite islamic right-wing, which is even acknowledged by arundhati roy. how many so-called muslim liberals stood up for salman rushdie in india? the hinduisation of tribals is a kind of right-wing phenomenon which is similar to the culture of conversions in monotheistic religions.</p>
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		<title>By: fahmed</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2008/10/31/muslim-madrasa-modernisation/#comment-3873</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fahmed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafilabackup.wordpress.com/?p=1260#comment-3873</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent article, Sohail.

Yoginder Sikand has an excellent blog dealing with various issues related to Madrasa Reforms here --&gt; http://madrasareforms.blogspot.com.

Apart from the points you mention, Yoginder has eloquently put this in his article,

&quot;There is yet another reason why the inordinate interest of the state in madrasa education and its &#039;reform&#039; needs to be critiqued. As many ulema, managers of the madrasas, see it, the intentions of the state in seeking to &#039;reform&#039; the madrasas are not beyond suspicion. They see this talk of &#039;reform&#039; as motivated by what they regard as an ulterior motive of interfering in and controlling the madrasas, and, consequently, undermining their autonomy and their Islamic ethos and identity. They point out that talk of madrasa &#039;reforms&#039; gathered particular momentum during the rule of the BJP at the Centre, when, following the release of a report on national security, demands began made for the state to intervene in the madrasas in order to combat &#039;terrorism&#039;, based on the misleading contention that Indian madrasas are &#039;hotbeds&#039; of &#039;terror&#039;. They look at how the demands for madrasa &#039;reform&#039; by various governments, such as that of the United States, as well as it client regimes, such as Pakistan, are linked to their quest to control and quash opposition movements. They see these demands as hypocritical, since it was precisely these governments that funded and promoted radicalism in certain Pakistani madrasas in the wake of the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. They thus argue that the state is not sincere in its protestations of being concerned about &#039;reforming&#039; the madrasas. If the state is serious about countering &#039;terrorism&#039;, they ask, why is it not seeking to similarly &#039;reform&#039; the vast chain of schools run by right-wing Hindutva forces throughout the country, which, unlike the Indian madrasas, openly preach hatred against other communities, particularly Muslims and Christians?&quot;

http://madrasareforms.blogspot.com/2008/01/state-policies-on-madrasas-and-muslim.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent article, Sohail.</p>
<p>Yoginder Sikand has an excellent blog dealing with various issues related to Madrasa Reforms here &#8211;&gt; <a href="http://madrasareforms.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://madrasareforms.blogspot.com</a>.</p>
<p>Apart from the points you mention, Yoginder has eloquently put this in his article,</p>
<p>&#8220;There is yet another reason why the inordinate interest of the state in madrasa education and its &#8216;reform&#8217; needs to be critiqued. As many ulema, managers of the madrasas, see it, the intentions of the state in seeking to &#8216;reform&#8217; the madrasas are not beyond suspicion. They see this talk of &#8216;reform&#8217; as motivated by what they regard as an ulterior motive of interfering in and controlling the madrasas, and, consequently, undermining their autonomy and their Islamic ethos and identity. They point out that talk of madrasa &#8216;reforms&#8217; gathered particular momentum during the rule of the BJP at the Centre, when, following the release of a report on national security, demands began made for the state to intervene in the madrasas in order to combat &#8216;terrorism&#8217;, based on the misleading contention that Indian madrasas are &#8216;hotbeds&#8217; of &#8216;terror&#8217;. They look at how the demands for madrasa &#8216;reform&#8217; by various governments, such as that of the United States, as well as it client regimes, such as Pakistan, are linked to their quest to control and quash opposition movements. They see these demands as hypocritical, since it was precisely these governments that funded and promoted radicalism in certain Pakistani madrasas in the wake of the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. They thus argue that the state is not sincere in its protestations of being concerned about &#8216;reforming&#8217; the madrasas. If the state is serious about countering &#8216;terrorism&#8217;, they ask, why is it not seeking to similarly &#8216;reform&#8217; the vast chain of schools run by right-wing Hindutva forces throughout the country, which, unlike the Indian madrasas, openly preach hatred against other communities, particularly Muslims and Christians?&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://madrasareforms.blogspot.com/2008/01/state-policies-on-madrasas-and-muslim.html" rel="nofollow">http://madrasareforms.blogspot.com/2008/01/state-policies-on-madrasas-and-muslim.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sohail Hashmi</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2008/10/31/muslim-madrasa-modernisation/#comment-3859</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sohail Hashmi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 17:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafilabackup.wordpress.com/?p=1260#comment-3859</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is not only the sanskrit schools, but also a whole lot of schools in tribal areas of 36 garh and elsewhere, in which the tribals are being Hinduised, through the schools run by the RSS, vidya bharti or is it sanskar bbharti or similar sounding organisations such as sarswati vidya mandirs.

It needs to be remembered that the &quot;venerable&quot;  congress leader &#039;Pandit Ravi Shankar Shukla&#039; had  invited the RSS to Madhya Pradesh to proselytise among the tribals.

One must also remember that the foundations of much of the Hindutva discourse were laid by the &#039;nationalist&#039; congress in the immediate pre and post independence India]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not only the sanskrit schools, but also a whole lot of schools in tribal areas of 36 garh and elsewhere, in which the tribals are being Hinduised, through the schools run by the RSS, vidya bharti or is it sanskar bbharti or similar sounding organisations such as sarswati vidya mandirs.</p>
<p>It needs to be remembered that the &#8220;venerable&#8221;  congress leader &#8216;Pandit Ravi Shankar Shukla&#8217; had  invited the RSS to Madhya Pradesh to proselytise among the tribals.</p>
<p>One must also remember that the foundations of much of the Hindutva discourse were laid by the &#8216;nationalist&#8217; congress in the immediate pre and post independence India</p>
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		<title>By: Subhash Gatade</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2008/10/31/muslim-madrasa-modernisation/#comment-3850</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Subhash Gatade]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 11:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafilabackup.wordpress.com/?p=1260#comment-3850</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting article. The writeup rightly raises the question of the schools run by the Hindutva brigade and exposing the toxification of minds which they are engaged in.

Recently I had a talk with a friend who raised the question of the sanskrit schools which are being run in different parts of the country. According to him they may not be run directly by the H brigade but are also engaged in similar exercise. Apart from the age-old curriculum which sanctifies manusmriti, they are mostly mono-caste schools where mainly brahmin boys from poor background take &#039;education&#039;.

It is worth noting that in all this hullaballo about Madarsa education, none from the secular brigade  has tried to uncover what is going on in the &#039;sanskrit schools&#039;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article. The writeup rightly raises the question of the schools run by the Hindutva brigade and exposing the toxification of minds which they are engaged in.</p>
<p>Recently I had a talk with a friend who raised the question of the sanskrit schools which are being run in different parts of the country. According to him they may not be run directly by the H brigade but are also engaged in similar exercise. Apart from the age-old curriculum which sanctifies manusmriti, they are mostly mono-caste schools where mainly brahmin boys from poor background take &#8216;education&#8217;.</p>
<p>It is worth noting that in all this hullaballo about Madarsa education, none from the secular brigade  has tried to uncover what is going on in the &#8216;sanskrit schools&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Sohail Hashmi</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2008/10/31/muslim-madrasa-modernisation/#comment-3848</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sohail Hashmi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 09:25:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafilabackup.wordpress.com/?p=1260#comment-3848</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Iam not arguing in favour of mainstreaming the madrasa, in fact i am not in favour of mainstreaming them at all. 

The demand for modernising the madrasa is an excuse for NGOiseing education and for the state to wash its hands of the responsibility of educating  children, especially those belonging to the minority community.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Iam not arguing in favour of mainstreaming the madrasa, in fact i am not in favour of mainstreaming them at all. </p>
<p>The demand for modernising the madrasa is an excuse for NGOiseing education and for the state to wash its hands of the responsibility of educating  children, especially those belonging to the minority community.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2008/10/31/muslim-madrasa-modernisation/#comment-3847</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 09:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafilabackup.wordpress.com/?p=1260#comment-3847</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sohail, I agree with you. Instead of the claptrap of &#039;modernising&#039; madrassas, the institution should be included in the mainstream edu system forthwith.

And yes, the Bal Mandirs and Vanwasi Ashrams that get state funding have to be &#039;modernised&#039; as well and held accountable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sohail, I agree with you. Instead of the claptrap of &#8216;modernising&#8217; madrassas, the institution should be included in the mainstream edu system forthwith.</p>
<p>And yes, the Bal Mandirs and Vanwasi Ashrams that get state funding have to be &#8216;modernised&#8217; as well and held accountable.</p>
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		<title>By: Sohail Hashmi</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2008/10/31/muslim-madrasa-modernisation/#comment-3845</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sohail Hashmi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 06:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafilabackup.wordpress.com/?p=1260#comment-3845</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why Convent schools are considered mainstream while madrasas are not should be fairly obvious, Convent school, even fake convents, (Like the convent of &quot;Lucipher&quot; that operated out of a quasi slum in a west UP town, till the folly of their ways was pointed out to them) will continue to be the mainstream as long as English continues in the position of pre-eminence that it has acquired. 

The fate of Madrasas was sealed the day Urdu came to be identified as the language of the &#039;other&#039; the foreigner, the Invader. 

Those who placed Urdu in that position, despite their high sounding swadesi claims, were collaborating with a very specific colonial project of linking languages to religions and of establishing a one to one equation between lreligion and culture.

The harvest of hatred is now being reaped.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why Convent schools are considered mainstream while madrasas are not should be fairly obvious, Convent school, even fake convents, (Like the convent of &#8220;Lucipher&#8221; that operated out of a quasi slum in a west UP town, till the folly of their ways was pointed out to them) will continue to be the mainstream as long as English continues in the position of pre-eminence that it has acquired. </p>
<p>The fate of Madrasas was sealed the day Urdu came to be identified as the language of the &#8216;other&#8217; the foreigner, the Invader. </p>
<p>Those who placed Urdu in that position, despite their high sounding swadesi claims, were collaborating with a very specific colonial project of linking languages to religions and of establishing a one to one equation between lreligion and culture.</p>
<p>The harvest of hatred is now being reaped.</p>
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		<title>By: Iftikhar Ahmad</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2008/10/31/muslim-madrasa-modernisation/#comment-3841</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Iftikhar Ahmad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 23:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafilabackup.wordpress.com/?p=1260#comment-3841</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Muslim youths are angry, frustrated and extremist because they have been mis-educated and de-educated by the British schooling. Muslim children are confused because they are being educated in a wrong place at a wrong time in state schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers.  They face lots of problems of growing up in two distinctive cultural traditions and value systems, which may come into conflict over issues such as the role of women in the society, and adherence to religious and cultural traditions. The conflicting demands made by home and schools on behaviour, loyalties and obligations can be a source of psychological conflict and tension in Muslim youngsters. There are also the issues of racial prejudice and discrimination to deal with, in education and employment. They have been victim of racism and bullying in all walks of life. According to DCSF, 56% of Pakistanis and 54% of Bangladeshi children has been victims of bullies. The first wave of Muslim migrants were happy to send their children to state schools, thinking their children would get a much better education. Than little by little, the overt and covert discrimination in the system turned them off.  There are fifteen areas where Muslim parents find themselves offended by state schools. 

The right to education in one’s own comfort zone is a fundamental and inalienable human right that should be available to all people irrespective of their ethnicity or religious background. Schools do not belong to state, they belong to parents. It is the parents’ choice to have faith schools for their children. Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-Muslim teacher or a child in a Muslim school. There are hundreds of state schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools. An ICM Poll of British Muslims showed that nearly half wanted their children to attend Muslim schools. There are only 143 Muslim schools. A state funded Muslim school in Birmingham has 220 pupils and more than 1000 applicants chasing just 60. 

Majority of anti-Muslim stories are not about terrorism but about Muslim
culture--the hijab, Muslim schools, family life and religiosity. Muslims in the west ought to be recognised as a western community, not as an alien culture.
Iftikhar Ahmad
www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Muslim youths are angry, frustrated and extremist because they have been mis-educated and de-educated by the British schooling. Muslim children are confused because they are being educated in a wrong place at a wrong time in state schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers.  They face lots of problems of growing up in two distinctive cultural traditions and value systems, which may come into conflict over issues such as the role of women in the society, and adherence to religious and cultural traditions. The conflicting demands made by home and schools on behaviour, loyalties and obligations can be a source of psychological conflict and tension in Muslim youngsters. There are also the issues of racial prejudice and discrimination to deal with, in education and employment. They have been victim of racism and bullying in all walks of life. According to DCSF, 56% of Pakistanis and 54% of Bangladeshi children has been victims of bullies. The first wave of Muslim migrants were happy to send their children to state schools, thinking their children would get a much better education. Than little by little, the overt and covert discrimination in the system turned them off.  There are fifteen areas where Muslim parents find themselves offended by state schools. </p>
<p>The right to education in one’s own comfort zone is a fundamental and inalienable human right that should be available to all people irrespective of their ethnicity or religious background. Schools do not belong to state, they belong to parents. It is the parents’ choice to have faith schools for their children. Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-Muslim teacher or a child in a Muslim school. There are hundreds of state schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools. An ICM Poll of British Muslims showed that nearly half wanted their children to attend Muslim schools. There are only 143 Muslim schools. A state funded Muslim school in Birmingham has 220 pupils and more than 1000 applicants chasing just 60. </p>
<p>Majority of anti-Muslim stories are not about terrorism but about Muslim<br />
culture&#8211;the hijab, Muslim schools, family life and religiosity. Muslims in the west ought to be recognised as a western community, not as an alien culture.<br />
Iftikhar Ahmad<br />
<a href="http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk</a></p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2008/10/31/muslim-madrasa-modernisation/#comment-3838</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 18:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafilabackup.wordpress.com/?p=1260#comment-3838</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sohail, you have not mentioned why &#039;Convent&#039; schools are considered mainstream and madrassas are not. At the end of the day, they&#039;re also educational institutions (and have been for a long time). And the Bengal example of a Hindu madrassa student finding his way in the merit list proves your point.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sohail, you have not mentioned why &#8216;Convent&#8217; schools are considered mainstream and madrassas are not. At the end of the day, they&#8217;re also educational institutions (and have been for a long time). And the Bengal example of a Hindu madrassa student finding his way in the merit list proves your point.</p>
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