Comments on: Swat Flogging and Public Outrage: Beena Sarwar

By: Ajit

Ajit — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 19:31:18 +0000

Nivedita, you are right. The border divides are completely imaginary as are our territorialities and transgressions. I wish we got past borders and focussed on values and issues instead.

By: Nivedita Menon

Nivedita Menon — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 07:23:34 +0000

I think we might disagree on whether the “correct conclusions” have been reached, whether they have been “verified”, etc.
Yes, I’m sure you feel the same towards “those Indians” as you do towards Sarwar – that’s my point exactly. The clear border-divides routinely assumed to be natural and unquestionable by nation-state mentalities do not exist for many of us on both sides.

By: Ajit

Ajit — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 06:56:54 +0000

“I would say, Ajit, that even if Beena Sarwar had been critical of the Indian state for “jumping to conclusions” she would have not felt very differently from many Indians, including myself and many others who too, who felt the same.”
Hmm…I guess I would feel the same towards those Indians as I do towards Sarwar. Not sure what is wrong abut jumping to correct conclusions. Or what is right about repeating the accusation after the conclusions have been verified.

By: Nivedita Menon

Nivedita Menon — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 11:05:41 +0000

I would say, Ajit, that even if Beena Sarwar had been critical of the Indian state for “jumping to conclusions” she would have not felt very differently from many Indians, including myself and many others who too, who felt the same. (There have been many posts and discussions on this in kafila).
“People like us there” and vice versa have no problems about being critical of our own nation-states and of each other’s. “People like them here” have often been very critical indeed of the Pakistani state. (Which is different from being “anti-Pakistan”, as Aditya points out, which is also a strand of secular politics in India.) The point is that as far as we are concerned there is no monolithic “India” or “Pakistan” – there are the Indian/Pakistani govts, media, religious right-wings, business interests, peace movements, ordinary citizens with families on both sides of the border, etc. etc. And “Indian/Pakistani” security is simply not synonymous with security for people in general.
However, pulling out one of the pieces that Beena Sarwar wrote at the time, what I see is a sharp critique of the Indian media’s war hysteria and over-the-top reporting (an opinion held by most Indians – and not only on kafila!) along with an equally sharp critique of reactions to this in Pakistan.
I do want to restate quite clearly – it is not at all mutually incompatible to be anti-Taliban/Hindu Right and suspicious of the Indian and Pakistani state machinery simultaneously – indeed, i would say the two go together!

By: Aditya Nigam

Aditya Nigam — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:32:43 +0000

Ajit,
It is not really a question of individuals – there are certainly many among such people (‘people like them here’) who are very anti-Pakistan as well – and I do not wish to name them for we have to fight many common battles together. Moreover, I am not really concerned with that part of the story. My point is that we all have our own battles to fight – us against the Hindutva goons and they against the Taliban. Their fight is of course much more dangerous – as is ours in some states and pockets of states in India. My point is that this batte is precisely over who and what constitutes a ‘Muslim’ (there) and who or what constitutes a ‘Hindu’ (here).
As far as I am concerned – personally – I am opposed to the very concept of the nation-state – Pakistani or Indian, it matters little. Look at any nation-state anywhere in the world and security anxieties, identity anxieties and all kinds of hatred of the other is spawned by them and those not-yet nation-state but aspiring to be. I am not therefore impressed by those who think their’s is better than others’.
Finally, isn’t it interesting that when the BJP/NDA was in power, we had Gujarat/Godhra, Akshardham attacks, parlaiment attacks, attacks in the Ayodhya premises – some thing or the other every day, and it almost seemed, if one were to go by the statements of the BJP leaders of those days, evreything was done by ISI – ISI ruled the country, not BJP! And why is the ISI not ruling India anymore? Not that terrorist attacks – even Pakistan and ISI instigated ones – have ceased but certainly life is not what it was under NDA rule. Much of this was simulated by the Pakistani and Indian state mirroring and mimicking each other. Since 2004, other agendas have emerged and even the Modis have had to talk dvelopment etc and not contest farcical elections against Musharraf!

By: Ajit

Ajit — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:13:58 +0000

“It is people like us there who must fight the Taliban, and people like them here who must fight the Hindutva fascists – always, relentlessly…Even when in the minority and especially when the political parties and leaders desert en masse”

Unfortunately ‘people like them’ failed shamefully in the days after the Mumbai attack. Refer to Ms. Sarwar’s articles then accusing Indians of ‘jumping to conclusions’ long after Kasab’s antecedents were exposed by journalists in distant UK.