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	<title>Comments for Kafila</title>
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	<description>media &#124; politics &#124; dissent</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2012 17:17:01 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Foregrounding Insult: Gopal Guru by Sruthi Muraleedharan</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/06/02/foregrounding-insult-gopal-guru/#comment-29770</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sruthi Muraleedharan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2012 17:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=13017#comment-29770</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Much needed intervention made by Prof. Guru, not only in the immediate context of the cartoon controversy but also I feel for some introspection for dalit politics also. It is extremely  strange that while there are competitive claims  being made over &#039;Ambedkar&#039; and also who represents that authentic voice of/for the dalits from within and outside, the main architect of this controversy is left completely unaccountable. Why the government&#039;s position is not being seen as patronizing/ upper caste manipulation/ Congress&#039;s effort to get rid of critical cartoons which does not show the congress and its &#039;sacrosanct&#039; political leaders as the saviour of Indian political history???
 Many of these textbooks with their cartoons intact have contributed to unsettle power dynamics for subaltern politics.they are crucial and important for the &#039;young minds to engage&#039;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Much needed intervention made by Prof. Guru, not only in the immediate context of the cartoon controversy but also I feel for some introspection for dalit politics also. It is extremely  strange that while there are competitive claims  being made over &#8216;Ambedkar&#8217; and also who represents that authentic voice of/for the dalits from within and outside, the main architect of this controversy is left completely unaccountable. Why the government&#8217;s position is not being seen as patronizing/ upper caste manipulation/ Congress&#8217;s effort to get rid of critical cartoons which does not show the congress and its &#8216;sacrosanct&#8217; political leaders as the saviour of Indian political history???<br />
 Many of these textbooks with their cartoons intact have contributed to unsettle power dynamics for subaltern politics.they are crucial and important for the &#8216;young minds to engage&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on My name is Mirza Asadullah Beg Khan &#8216;Ghalib&#8217; and I am not a terrorist! by ilmanafasih</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/04/10/my-name-is-mirza-asadullah-beg-khan-ghalib-and-i-am-not-a-terrorist/#comment-29769</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ilmanafasih]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2012 14:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=12333#comment-29769</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Recently while reading a book on Ghalib&#039;s letters came across this shair, thought would share here: 

Hum muwahid hain, humara kesh hai tark-e-rusoom,
Millatein jab mit gayeen,ejzaae imaan ho gayeen.
{ We believe in One God, rituals we renounce,
Creeds when dissolved, merge into One faith.}
~Ghalib]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recently while reading a book on Ghalib&#8217;s letters came across this shair, thought would share here: </p>
<p>Hum muwahid hain, humara kesh hai tark-e-rusoom,<br />
Millatein jab mit gayeen,ejzaae imaan ho gayeen.<br />
{ We believe in One God, rituals we renounce,<br />
Creeds when dissolved, merge into One faith.}<br />
~Ghalib</p>
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		<title>Comment on Foregrounding Insult: Gopal Guru by Aditya Nigam</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/06/02/foregrounding-insult-gopal-guru/#comment-29768</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aditya Nigam]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2012 14:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=13017#comment-29768</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Raja, Much as I respect the work of Satyanarayana, I think this interview does not address many key issues - except for asserting something called a &#039;dalit viewpoint&#039;, which actually begs the question of what precisely this voice is. We all know by now that there are at least four or five different kinds of voices (Satyanarayana&#039;s being only one among them). Gopal Guru, Anoop Kumar, Harish Wankhede, Hari Narke and many others have come out with a range of different positions that I believe reveal quite a spectrum - all at variance with Satyanarayana&#039;s. 
Secondly, I do not think that his allegation that the left-liberals (in which he presumably includes some of us) refusal to review the cartoon in the textbook is really what is providing the opening for the state&#039;s intervention. Kapil Sibal stated quite clearly that: 
”Much before the issue came to parliament, I had already taken action. I called for the NCERT text books and I looked at other cartoons. I realised that there were many other cartoons that were not in good taste and disparaging in nature. They were not sending the right message to our &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mid-day.com/news/2012/may/120512-Sibal-apologises-orders-removal-of-sketch-from-books.htm&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;children in classrooms”&lt;/a&gt;.
Clearly, there is something else that is at work, which a viewpoint like Satyanarayana&#039;s simply refuses to countenance.
But let me come to the other more crucial question. Some of us have for long been in close interaction and conversation with colleagues like Satyanarayana (of course always aware that we are in the last analysis &#039;upper caste&#039; agents), and have ever so often stood with them on a wide range of issues. I believe that neither Satyanarayana nor others I have mentioned above, are unaware of what is sought to be undone through this controversy. If Satyanarayana really believes that people like us simply adopted a particular stance because we want to avoid a discussion on caste, then there is clearly no discussion possible. If the point is that people like (left-liberal intellectuals) simply cannot, despite ourselves, transcend our caste selves, is Satyanarayana arguing that there is never any way of building solidarities? After all, &#039;critical pedagogy&#039; and the new text-books came up in response to vigorous critiques of conventional text-books and pedagogies by  dalit intellectuals themselves (among others) and frontally addressed questions of caste discrimination in class-rooms and how these may be dealt with. Show me if you can, when before this, not merely Ambedkar but also extracts from texts of dalit literature like those of Om Prakash Valmiki, Daya Pawar and so many others have been included in the textbooks.
Clearly, if we are unable to discern precisely where the dalit movement&#039;s own gains have made an impact on the maisntream, and just react in pre-set ways, we all deserve no better than the NDA or the UPA (Kapil Sibal)!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raja, Much as I respect the work of Satyanarayana, I think this interview does not address many key issues &#8211; except for asserting something called a &#8216;dalit viewpoint&#8217;, which actually begs the question of what precisely this voice is. We all know by now that there are at least four or five different kinds of voices (Satyanarayana&#8217;s being only one among them). Gopal Guru, Anoop Kumar, Harish Wankhede, Hari Narke and many others have come out with a range of different positions that I believe reveal quite a spectrum &#8211; all at variance with Satyanarayana&#8217;s.<br />
Secondly, I do not think that his allegation that the left-liberals (in which he presumably includes some of us) refusal to review the cartoon in the textbook is really what is providing the opening for the state&#8217;s intervention. Kapil Sibal stated quite clearly that:<br />
”Much before the issue came to parliament, I had already taken action. I called for the NCERT text books and I looked at other cartoons. I realised that there were many other cartoons that were not in good taste and disparaging in nature. They were not sending the right message to our <a href="http://www.mid-day.com/news/2012/may/120512-Sibal-apologises-orders-removal-of-sketch-from-books.htm" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">children in classrooms”</a>.<br />
Clearly, there is something else that is at work, which a viewpoint like Satyanarayana&#8217;s simply refuses to countenance.<br />
But let me come to the other more crucial question. Some of us have for long been in close interaction and conversation with colleagues like Satyanarayana (of course always aware that we are in the last analysis &#8216;upper caste&#8217; agents), and have ever so often stood with them on a wide range of issues. I believe that neither Satyanarayana nor others I have mentioned above, are unaware of what is sought to be undone through this controversy. If Satyanarayana really believes that people like us simply adopted a particular stance because we want to avoid a discussion on caste, then there is clearly no discussion possible. If the point is that people like (left-liberal intellectuals) simply cannot, despite ourselves, transcend our caste selves, is Satyanarayana arguing that there is never any way of building solidarities? After all, &#8216;critical pedagogy&#8217; and the new text-books came up in response to vigorous critiques of conventional text-books and pedagogies by  dalit intellectuals themselves (among others) and frontally addressed questions of caste discrimination in class-rooms and how these may be dealt with. Show me if you can, when before this, not merely Ambedkar but also extracts from texts of dalit literature like those of Om Prakash Valmiki, Daya Pawar and so many others have been included in the textbooks.<br />
Clearly, if we are unable to discern precisely where the dalit movement&#8217;s own gains have made an impact on the maisntream, and just react in pre-set ways, we all deserve no better than the NDA or the UPA (Kapil Sibal)!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Foregrounding Insult: Gopal Guru by Aniket</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/06/02/foregrounding-insult-gopal-guru/#comment-29766</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aniket]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2012 13:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=13017#comment-29766</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I would like to discuss here who should feel insulted and under what subjective conditions? Those who have inherited insult from the past, not invented it for the present, are the ones who should feel insulted.&quot;

This does not mean anything, does it? Who is going to decide whether a certain group has inherited insult from the past or has actually invented it for the present? The VHP folks like many Modi-supporters in Gujarat and elsewhere regularly speak about avenging their historical humiliation and insult. On what grounds and through what political means do we confront the subjective experience of these people? I say political means deliberately. Social scientists are very fond of critiquing &quot;expertise&quot; when it comes to development and environmental conflicts - as something that short-circuits politics in the name of technical knowledge. It seems to me that exactly this kind of &quot;historical expertise&quot; is implicitly being called for in Prof. Guru&#039;s implication that there is somewhere an unproblematic account which can separate the grain of genuine historical insult from the chaff of invented hurt. 

Yes, not all insults are equal, there has to be a gradation in the weight and viciousness of insults, and it should be possible to call some insulted groups&#039; bluff - but these are matters of political negotiation rather than historical-sociological expertise. They require persuading people to think a certain way, altering the interpretation of their experience - which is what politics is all about. Perhaps I am mistaken, but Prof. Guru, by being silent about the complexity of negotiating different claims of insult, seems to be suggesting that this is a matter of solid historical sociology, rather than solid politics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I would like to discuss here who should feel insulted and under what subjective conditions? Those who have inherited insult from the past, not invented it for the present, are the ones who should feel insulted.&#8221;</p>
<p>This does not mean anything, does it? Who is going to decide whether a certain group has inherited insult from the past or has actually invented it for the present? The VHP folks like many Modi-supporters in Gujarat and elsewhere regularly speak about avenging their historical humiliation and insult. On what grounds and through what political means do we confront the subjective experience of these people? I say political means deliberately. Social scientists are very fond of critiquing &#8220;expertise&#8221; when it comes to development and environmental conflicts &#8211; as something that short-circuits politics in the name of technical knowledge. It seems to me that exactly this kind of &#8220;historical expertise&#8221; is implicitly being called for in Prof. Guru&#8217;s implication that there is somewhere an unproblematic account which can separate the grain of genuine historical insult from the chaff of invented hurt. </p>
<p>Yes, not all insults are equal, there has to be a gradation in the weight and viciousness of insults, and it should be possible to call some insulted groups&#8217; bluff &#8211; but these are matters of political negotiation rather than historical-sociological expertise. They require persuading people to think a certain way, altering the interpretation of their experience &#8211; which is what politics is all about. Perhaps I am mistaken, but Prof. Guru, by being silent about the complexity of negotiating different claims of insult, seems to be suggesting that this is a matter of solid historical sociology, rather than solid politics.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ambedkar’s Cartoon and the Caste question: Rajkumar by 3thirtynine</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/05/31/ambedkars-cartoon-and-the-caste-question-rajkumar/#comment-29765</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[3thirtynine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2012 12:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=12996#comment-29765</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[pray, what would be the purpose of having an illustration that was &quot;ethically, morally and pedagogically flawed and mischievous to the core&quot; in a school textbook, howsoever well it furthered the young and incurious in the their academic pursuits?
i don&#039;t know about you, sir, but i&#039;m all for &quot;censorship&quot; when it comes to ethically and morally flawed material for *my* children. parenthood does that to one, i guess. hey, i&#039;m even okay with censoring the internet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pray, what would be the purpose of having an illustration that was &#8220;ethically, morally and pedagogically flawed and mischievous to the core&#8221; in a school textbook, howsoever well it furthered the young and incurious in the their academic pursuits?<br />
i don&#8217;t know about you, sir, but i&#8217;m all for &#8220;censorship&#8221; when it comes to ethically and morally flawed material for *my* children. parenthood does that to one, i guess. hey, i&#8217;m even okay with censoring the internet.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Foregrounding Insult: Gopal Guru by shama</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/06/02/foregrounding-insult-gopal-guru/#comment-29760</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[shama]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2012 10:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=13017#comment-29760</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ah, the irony of this tyranny – if you do not conform to the loudest and most vocal assertion, or  with the majority opinion, you betray the cause and are easily labelled as the other. Gopalguru does not need your endorsement of his credentials, he does not need any defence either. But i feel sad for those who think the only way to engage with an argument is by indulging in mud slinging , especially when they supposedly espouse the cause of the ‘oppresed’. This betrays merely an inability to engage with the complexity of an argument – the endorsement of reason and rationality by Ambedkar himself, as well as an important strand of dissident dalit scholarship was an assertion of equality, and a rightful claim to an equal partnership, and a refusal to be an object of patronisation by liberal uppercaste guilt. Because Ambedkar knew that the other side of this guilt could so easily be used in ensuring the ‘other ‘ was forever condemned to remain so, outside the spheres of power and an equal partnership.

It is possible that as many have pointed out,  the cartoon could be read differently in upper caste dominated classrooms in  a way that could offend, it is also possible that it brought casteist connotations  to some minds ( but it is very important to remember these readings came much after the controversy had already erupted on the national scene by groups with learly questionable motives, after some years of it  having been part of a classroom curricula ). It is also important to remember that it was the manner in which this adhoc, unilateral and arbitrary intervention occurred that led to the initial responses and defences by sections of academic  community fearing the consequences of such a withdrawal. 

One feels  the argument being made by Gopal Guru here is however different. Teltumbde’s article is an important case in this point – a ‘bathani tola’ could go unnoticed while dalit sensibilities about a cartoon could be dealt with such alacrity by those actively responsible for the continued assertion of upper caste dominance in the corridors of power. After all , who had any stake in preserving a textbook attempting to bring in a critique of such dominance in itself in the first place?  It was so easy to bring out the upper casteness of those attempting to raise these very questions in young minds.

It is precisely because Ambedkar refused to let a ‘Nehru’ or a ‘Subhash Chandra’ appropriate reason and rationality as the domain of a privileged upper caste understanding, he appropriated it to bring in a powerful critique and assertion of caste identities. Was that imitation on his part? So are we admitting the upper caste are rational while dalits are emotional?? And whatever be the cause or the context, their emotions are to be reified when appropriating them is not merely easy, but serves other interests too ? It is not a question of privileging ‘emotion over reason’ or ‘reason over emotion’, for who can question the legitimacy of the historical experience of caste humiliation ?   They often demand redressal in political interventions too.  But the point being made  is simple – should one let the discourse of hurt emotions be so easily and strategically deployed whenever it suits partisan interests both within and outside the marginalised community?  Is that not patronization and an assertion of upper caste guilt on part of the dominant and a playing into the mode of victimization on part of the marginalised’?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, the irony of this tyranny – if you do not conform to the loudest and most vocal assertion, or  with the majority opinion, you betray the cause and are easily labelled as the other. Gopalguru does not need your endorsement of his credentials, he does not need any defence either. But i feel sad for those who think the only way to engage with an argument is by indulging in mud slinging , especially when they supposedly espouse the cause of the ‘oppresed’. This betrays merely an inability to engage with the complexity of an argument – the endorsement of reason and rationality by Ambedkar himself, as well as an important strand of dissident dalit scholarship was an assertion of equality, and a rightful claim to an equal partnership, and a refusal to be an object of patronisation by liberal uppercaste guilt. Because Ambedkar knew that the other side of this guilt could so easily be used in ensuring the ‘other ‘ was forever condemned to remain so, outside the spheres of power and an equal partnership.</p>
<p>It is possible that as many have pointed out,  the cartoon could be read differently in upper caste dominated classrooms in  a way that could offend, it is also possible that it brought casteist connotations  to some minds ( but it is very important to remember these readings came much after the controversy had already erupted on the national scene by groups with learly questionable motives, after some years of it  having been part of a classroom curricula ). It is also important to remember that it was the manner in which this adhoc, unilateral and arbitrary intervention occurred that led to the initial responses and defences by sections of academic  community fearing the consequences of such a withdrawal. </p>
<p>One feels  the argument being made by Gopal Guru here is however different. Teltumbde’s article is an important case in this point – a ‘bathani tola’ could go unnoticed while dalit sensibilities about a cartoon could be dealt with such alacrity by those actively responsible for the continued assertion of upper caste dominance in the corridors of power. After all , who had any stake in preserving a textbook attempting to bring in a critique of such dominance in itself in the first place?  It was so easy to bring out the upper casteness of those attempting to raise these very questions in young minds.</p>
<p>It is precisely because Ambedkar refused to let a ‘Nehru’ or a ‘Subhash Chandra’ appropriate reason and rationality as the domain of a privileged upper caste understanding, he appropriated it to bring in a powerful critique and assertion of caste identities. Was that imitation on his part? So are we admitting the upper caste are rational while dalits are emotional?? And whatever be the cause or the context, their emotions are to be reified when appropriating them is not merely easy, but serves other interests too ? It is not a question of privileging ‘emotion over reason’ or ‘reason over emotion’, for who can question the legitimacy of the historical experience of caste humiliation ?   They often demand redressal in political interventions too.  But the point being made  is simple – should one let the discourse of hurt emotions be so easily and strategically deployed whenever it suits partisan interests both within and outside the marginalised community?  Is that not patronization and an assertion of upper caste guilt on part of the dominant and a playing into the mode of victimization on part of the marginalised’?</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;The more they censor the internet the bigger we become&#8221; &#8211; An interview of Anonymous India by suresh</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/06/01/the-more-they-censor-the-internet-the-bigger-we-become-an-interview-of-anonymous-india/#comment-29756</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[suresh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2012 08:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=13013#comment-29756</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;That anything which concerns the elites or middle class is evil is a view held perhaps by a few radicals in the Maoist jungles of India or a few guilt-ridden Indian academics in US universities. Which one are you?&lt;/i&gt;

1.  I don&#039;t hold this view.  Why should I when I belong to the same class?  I only made the point that there are other forms of censorships which are, arguably,  more dangerous and we ought not to forget that.

2.  My problem is not with the protest against internet censorship but against the particular tactics that Anonymous India advocates.  Surely that is clear?  My point is that if you legitimize this tactic then others can do the same in defence of causes that we might not like.   

3.  Whatever we do, the fight against censorship is going to be a long drawn one.   This is not simply because our government is &quot;evil&quot; though that is there too.    However, I think the presence of censorship also reflects the fact that we are not as yet a liberal society where freedom of speech is accepted as a general principle.   In particular, I don&#039;t think many accept the idea that freedom of speech necessarily means the right to say things that may offend others.

Too often, various groups in our society are quick to draw offence and demand that something or the other be banned.  So the fight against censorship is also a battle to transform attitudes in our own society and that is necessarily going to long drawn.  I therefore think that the choice of tactics becomes important.  Of course, you might well disagree.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>That anything which concerns the elites or middle class is evil is a view held perhaps by a few radicals in the Maoist jungles of India or a few guilt-ridden Indian academics in US universities. Which one are you?</i></p>
<p>1.  I don&#8217;t hold this view.  Why should I when I belong to the same class?  I only made the point that there are other forms of censorships which are, arguably,  more dangerous and we ought not to forget that.</p>
<p>2.  My problem is not with the protest against internet censorship but against the particular tactics that Anonymous India advocates.  Surely that is clear?  My point is that if you legitimize this tactic then others can do the same in defence of causes that we might not like.   </p>
<p>3.  Whatever we do, the fight against censorship is going to be a long drawn one.   This is not simply because our government is &#8220;evil&#8221; though that is there too.    However, I think the presence of censorship also reflects the fact that we are not as yet a liberal society where freedom of speech is accepted as a general principle.   In particular, I don&#8217;t think many accept the idea that freedom of speech necessarily means the right to say things that may offend others.</p>
<p>Too often, various groups in our society are quick to draw offence and demand that something or the other be banned.  So the fight against censorship is also a battle to transform attitudes in our own society and that is necessarily going to long drawn.  I therefore think that the choice of tactics becomes important.  Of course, you might well disagree.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Foregrounding Insult: Gopal Guru by M. Raja</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/06/02/foregrounding-insult-gopal-guru/#comment-29755</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[M. Raja]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2012 08:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=13017#comment-29755</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, I meant to attach Satyanarayana&#039;s views. Do please tag http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHRN30NATe0&amp;feature=youtu.be&amp;a. the other links are on the sidebar...
M. Raja]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, I meant to attach Satyanarayana&#8217;s views. Do please tag <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHRN30NATe0&#038;feature=youtu.be&#038;a" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHRN30NATe0&#038;feature=youtu.be&#038;a</a>. the other links are on the sidebar&#8230;<br />
M. Raja</p>
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		<title>Comment on Foregrounding Insult: Gopal Guru by M. Raja</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/06/02/foregrounding-insult-gopal-guru/#comment-29754</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[M. Raja]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2012 08:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=13017#comment-29754</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with Santosh. And I am finally glad Kafila&#039;s admins have convinced Prof Guru to speak for himself and extracted a written post for him—so far what he said was being &quot;reported&quot;. I wish Kafila, in the service of a democratic and critical discussion, forefronted the important views of someone like K. Satyanarayana of EFLU in a four-part series of interviews done Ravichandran, a research scholar at EFLU through his video initiative, &quot;Dalit Camera: Through Untouchable Eyes&quot;. This has been on air since 29 May. Here Satyanarayana in Part 1 around the 4th minute takes issue with Kafila and the chorus of views aired on this forum, and goes on to make a very important point: &quot;By not acknowledging this [dalit opposition to the particular cartoon] they are actually providing the scope  for the state to intervene. In fact, I would accuse the liberal and left intellectuals of providing a chance for the state to intervene and ban and censor and kill the pedagogic revolution... if the textbook represents revolution... so you could use/defeat [audio unclear] the liberal-left intellectuals by their own response.&quot; 
Secondly, there&#039;s a serious problem with the manner in which Gopal Guru posits the problem: why does he think only dalits are reduced pathologically to emotionalism? Was not Gandhi always resorting to emotional blackmail by undertaking fasts to make his opponents come around? Doesn&#039;t the gujarati upper middle class carry a sense of hurt and react &quot;emotionally&quot; to the death of kar-sevaks and unleash a pogrom against Muslims? How and where does the dalit response differ? Finally, it is not clear how Guru &quot;reads&quot; the cartoon; he sidesteps that issue and falls unwittingly into a brahmanical trap just to perhaps please the secular-liberal elite who anyway reduce him to being a &quot;dalit voice&quot; even if he would consider himself India&#039;s foremost Kantian.
M. Raja]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Santosh. And I am finally glad Kafila&#8217;s admins have convinced Prof Guru to speak for himself and extracted a written post for him—so far what he said was being &#8220;reported&#8221;. I wish Kafila, in the service of a democratic and critical discussion, forefronted the important views of someone like K. Satyanarayana of EFLU in a four-part series of interviews done Ravichandran, a research scholar at EFLU through his video initiative, &#8220;Dalit Camera: Through Untouchable Eyes&#8221;. This has been on air since 29 May. Here Satyanarayana in Part 1 around the 4th minute takes issue with Kafila and the chorus of views aired on this forum, and goes on to make a very important point: &#8220;By not acknowledging this [dalit opposition to the particular cartoon] they are actually providing the scope  for the state to intervene. In fact, I would accuse the liberal and left intellectuals of providing a chance for the state to intervene and ban and censor and kill the pedagogic revolution&#8230; if the textbook represents revolution&#8230; so you could use/defeat [audio unclear] the liberal-left intellectuals by their own response.&#8221;<br />
Secondly, there&#8217;s a serious problem with the manner in which Gopal Guru posits the problem: why does he think only dalits are reduced pathologically to emotionalism? Was not Gandhi always resorting to emotional blackmail by undertaking fasts to make his opponents come around? Doesn&#8217;t the gujarati upper middle class carry a sense of hurt and react &#8220;emotionally&#8221; to the death of kar-sevaks and unleash a pogrom against Muslims? How and where does the dalit response differ? Finally, it is not clear how Guru &#8220;reads&#8221; the cartoon; he sidesteps that issue and falls unwittingly into a brahmanical trap just to perhaps please the secular-liberal elite who anyway reduce him to being a &#8220;dalit voice&#8221; even if he would consider himself India&#8217;s foremost Kantian.<br />
M. Raja</p>
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		<title>Comment on Invisible Censorship &#8211; How India Censors Without Being Seen: Pranesh Prakash by Индия: Практическо ръководство по индийска свобода на словото &#183; Global Voices на български</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/01/11/invisible-censorship-how-the-government-censors-without-being-seen-pranesh-prakash/#comment-29753</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Индия: Практическо ръководство по индийска свобода на словото &#183; Global Voices на български]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2012 07:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=11132#comment-29753</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] да обидят някого (и да влязат в затвора), в резултат на новите правителствени регулации (анг) в Индия.      Tweet     Нила от Akhond Of Swat (анг) е [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] да обидят някого (и да влязат в затвора), в резултат на новите правителствени регулации (анг) в Индия.      Tweet     Нила от Akhond Of Swat (анг) е [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Foregrounding Insult: Gopal Guru by santosh</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/06/02/foregrounding-insult-gopal-guru/#comment-29752</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[santosh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2012 07:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=13017#comment-29752</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gopal Guru is presenting a strange kind of argument. He, like other upper caste intellectuals, is ready to accept that Dalits reactions on cartoon controversy is only emotional. Rationality is a virtue of upper caste people and Dalits have to only imitate them (to show that they are rational). Please remember that for modernist like Nehru, caste was not a question of day-to-day politics. He had full faith in rational means. So, for him, the politics of Amedkar (or even Gandhi&#039;s movement against untouchability) was an emotional diversion from freedom struggle.For patriots like Subhas bose Amedkar politics was the activity of a &#039;traitor&#039;. Please remember these were mainstream rational thinkers.
Guru is the favorite thinker of upper caste people. He helped them to give some authenticity to their &#039;rational&#039; mind. After all, &#039;Look, even a dalit thinker is expressing views like us!!!!&#039; Its a Brahmanical accommodation of Gopal Guru.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gopal Guru is presenting a strange kind of argument. He, like other upper caste intellectuals, is ready to accept that Dalits reactions on cartoon controversy is only emotional. Rationality is a virtue of upper caste people and Dalits have to only imitate them (to show that they are rational). Please remember that for modernist like Nehru, caste was not a question of day-to-day politics. He had full faith in rational means. So, for him, the politics of Amedkar (or even Gandhi&#8217;s movement against untouchability) was an emotional diversion from freedom struggle.For patriots like Subhas bose Amedkar politics was the activity of a &#8216;traitor&#8217;. Please remember these were mainstream rational thinkers.<br />
Guru is the favorite thinker of upper caste people. He helped them to give some authenticity to their &#8216;rational&#8217; mind. After all, &#8216;Look, even a dalit thinker is expressing views like us!!!!&#8217; Its a Brahmanical accommodation of Gopal Guru.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Who is Jugni?: Indu Vashist by TaRaNjiT SiNgH</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2011/03/05/who-is-jugni/#comment-29751</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TaRaNjiT SiNgH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2012 06:58:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=6934#comment-29751</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[thnxx for sharing such thngs .]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thnxx for sharing such thngs .</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;The more they censor the internet the bigger we become&#8221; &#8211; An interview of Anonymous India by Shama Zaidi</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/06/01/the-more-they-censor-the-internet-the-bigger-we-become-an-interview-of-anonymous-india/#comment-29750</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shama Zaidi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2012 06:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=13013#comment-29750</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[deface every illegal poster put up by a politician or a political part which are all defacing our neighbourhoods. also protest the free publicity politicians give themselves by putting huge advertisements in newspapers displaying their pictures while ostensibly publicizing some government scheme which does not need such publicity in the first place and is a waste of public money.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>deface every illegal poster put up by a politician or a political part which are all defacing our neighbourhoods. also protest the free publicity politicians give themselves by putting huge advertisements in newspapers displaying their pictures while ostensibly publicizing some government scheme which does not need such publicity in the first place and is a waste of public money.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Foregrounding Insult: Gopal Guru by preeti chauhan</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/06/02/foregrounding-insult-gopal-guru/#comment-29749</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[preeti chauhan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2012 05:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=13017#comment-29749</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[it provides a very new and insightful way of looking into humiliation and insult faced by dalits and how there are complexities involved in understanding it.thanks for putting it here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it provides a very new and insightful way of looking into humiliation and insult faced by dalits and how there are complexities involved in understanding it.thanks for putting it here.</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;The more they censor the internet the bigger we become&#8221; &#8211; An interview of Anonymous India by Shivam Vij</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/06/01/the-more-they-censor-the-internet-the-bigger-we-become-an-interview-of-anonymous-india/#comment-29741</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shivam Vij]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 22:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=13013#comment-29741</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes Suresh there&#039;s all kinds of censorship and control of dissent in India at all levels but I diasgree that internet censorship is not important. This is a crucial time to guard the Indian Internet as the rules, written and unwritten, made today will set the course for the future. If allowed to get away with brazen censorship of the Internet today, it may become a norm tomorrow that may be difficult to challenge as it may be taken for granted - like some of the instances you cite, or like the Censor Board for films. It seems that your problem is that the internet is a &quot;middle class&quot; medium - until some years ago it was said to be elite. That anything which concerns the elites or middle class is evil is a view held perhaps by a few radicals in the Maoist jungles of India or a few guilt-ridden Indian academics in US universities. Which one are you?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Suresh there&#8217;s all kinds of censorship and control of dissent in India at all levels but I diasgree that internet censorship is not important. This is a crucial time to guard the Indian Internet as the rules, written and unwritten, made today will set the course for the future. If allowed to get away with brazen censorship of the Internet today, it may become a norm tomorrow that may be difficult to challenge as it may be taken for granted &#8211; like some of the instances you cite, or like the Censor Board for films. It seems that your problem is that the internet is a &#8220;middle class&#8221; medium &#8211; until some years ago it was said to be elite. That anything which concerns the elites or middle class is evil is a view held perhaps by a few radicals in the Maoist jungles of India or a few guilt-ridden Indian academics in US universities. Which one are you?</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;The more they censor the internet the bigger we become&#8221; &#8211; An interview of Anonymous India by Ravi</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/06/01/the-more-they-censor-the-internet-the-bigger-we-become-an-interview-of-anonymous-india/#comment-29739</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ravi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 22:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=13013#comment-29739</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Suresh,

The rule of law should be absolute in any democracy. There is no question about it. However, in certain democracies, such as ours and that seen in the United States, what happens when the rule makers are the rule breakers? In fact many laws are made so that what used to be illegal or at least immoral becomes legal. I can give you many many instances of such laws at least in the United States. The might of the powerful becomes so overwhelming that a common man has no chance to fight against injustice and win. A very simple example: as an individual do you believe you can take a mighty corporation, say Walmart, and win in a court? You will simply lose because you can never meet their deep pockets and the lawyers cost a pretty penny. So the government is supposed to be on your (common man&#039;s) side and they are supposed to appoint public prosecutors to fight your case. It seldom happens in practice because of the lobbies. The same lobbies then go and have the laws rewritten so that even the courts can&#039;t help you. 

Obviously the best way forward is to choose our representatives wisely. That seldom happens either in India or US. In India they play caste politics, violence and what have you so that the same villains get elected again and again. In the US, they play money politics, remap the districts and two party politics and it is the same story all over again. 

The movements like the anonymous and occupy are nothing but the popular expression of helplessness against the loaded die. Until something drastically changes, these movements will grow and I think they are as legitimate as, say the rebellion against East India Company rule in 1857 or the Arab spring of 2011.

-RK]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suresh,</p>
<p>The rule of law should be absolute in any democracy. There is no question about it. However, in certain democracies, such as ours and that seen in the United States, what happens when the rule makers are the rule breakers? In fact many laws are made so that what used to be illegal or at least immoral becomes legal. I can give you many many instances of such laws at least in the United States. The might of the powerful becomes so overwhelming that a common man has no chance to fight against injustice and win. A very simple example: as an individual do you believe you can take a mighty corporation, say Walmart, and win in a court? You will simply lose because you can never meet their deep pockets and the lawyers cost a pretty penny. So the government is supposed to be on your (common man&#8217;s) side and they are supposed to appoint public prosecutors to fight your case. It seldom happens in practice because of the lobbies. The same lobbies then go and have the laws rewritten so that even the courts can&#8217;t help you. </p>
<p>Obviously the best way forward is to choose our representatives wisely. That seldom happens either in India or US. In India they play caste politics, violence and what have you so that the same villains get elected again and again. In the US, they play money politics, remap the districts and two party politics and it is the same story all over again. </p>
<p>The movements like the anonymous and occupy are nothing but the popular expression of helplessness against the loaded die. Until something drastically changes, these movements will grow and I think they are as legitimate as, say the rebellion against East India Company rule in 1857 or the Arab spring of 2011.</p>
<p>-RK</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mangoes and me by ilmanafasih</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/05/30/mangoes-and-me/#comment-29734</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ilmanafasih]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 19:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=12987#comment-29734</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As always, Sohail Bhai,  your articles about Delhi, are the fastest mode of transportation I have experienced, to go to Delhi, back in time. 

Thrilled to have seen the mention of Zahoor Siddiqui, who for us, being Zahoor Uncle, not only just lived next door, but also will be revered by all our subsequent generations for having gifted to my Mom (his colleague) a sapling of qalmi Ratol mango sapling, almost two decades ago, which has now become a giant tree, that bears the most delicious mangoes every other year.

Going back further, sitting in Matia Mahal home of Dada Abba, on the dasterkhwaan, with buckets full of mangoes, softening and squeezing them, and eating just mango after mango, in sweltering heat, is another memory worth a treasure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As always, Sohail Bhai,  your articles about Delhi, are the fastest mode of transportation I have experienced, to go to Delhi, back in time. </p>
<p>Thrilled to have seen the mention of Zahoor Siddiqui, who for us, being Zahoor Uncle, not only just lived next door, but also will be revered by all our subsequent generations for having gifted to my Mom (his colleague) a sapling of qalmi Ratol mango sapling, almost two decades ago, which has now become a giant tree, that bears the most delicious mangoes every other year.</p>
<p>Going back further, sitting in Matia Mahal home of Dada Abba, on the dasterkhwaan, with buckets full of mangoes, softening and squeezing them, and eating just mango after mango, in sweltering heat, is another memory worth a treasure.</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;The more they censor the internet the bigger we become&#8221; &#8211; An interview of Anonymous India by suresh</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/06/01/the-more-they-censor-the-internet-the-bigger-we-become-an-interview-of-anonymous-india/#comment-29731</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[suresh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 16:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=13013#comment-29731</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am sorry to post again (feel free to delete) but I cannot resist giving &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/nation/editor-in-chief-of-bihar&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this link on censorship in Bihar&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;i&gt;If you haven’t heard of an income tax raid on the residential premises of Nitish Kumar’s close aide and treasurer of the ruling Janata Dal-United (JD-U), Vinay Kumar Sinha, you are not alone. Thanks to the local media, it took a while even in Patna—where the house is located—for people to get to know. This, incidentally, is the same place where Nitish Kumar used to live until he became Chief Minister of Bihar. In the aforementioned raid, which took place in the third week of March, tax sleuths seized sacksful of cash, nearly Rs 5 crore of it, and ownership papers of 50 flats located in different parts of Patna, among other things. But in the next morning’s newspapers, this news was either missing or buried deep within as a single-column or brief item on an inside page.

“Not that it was not big news, it indeed was,” says the editor of an English daily in Bihar, “But, you see, that’s how it is.” The helplessness of this editor, who speaks anonymously, is a feeling shared by several other journalists. They talk ominously of controls placed on the media in Bihar. Yet, what is most striking about this awkward truth of the state is the determination with which this ‘control’ is being exercised on the media. It is a carrot-and-stick mechanism that is unparalleled in the modern history of Bihar.&lt;/i&gt;

What this tells us is that that our various governments have a number of tools at their disposal for controlling dissent.   In our middle-class obsession with internet censorship, we should not forget the others.  Personally, I think internet censorship may not even be the most important one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am sorry to post again (feel free to delete) but I cannot resist giving <a href="http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/nation/editor-in-chief-of-bihar" rel="nofollow">this link on censorship in Bihar</a>:</p>
<p><i>If you haven’t heard of an income tax raid on the residential premises of Nitish Kumar’s close aide and treasurer of the ruling Janata Dal-United (JD-U), Vinay Kumar Sinha, you are not alone. Thanks to the local media, it took a while even in Patna—where the house is located—for people to get to know. This, incidentally, is the same place where Nitish Kumar used to live until he became Chief Minister of Bihar. In the aforementioned raid, which took place in the third week of March, tax sleuths seized sacksful of cash, nearly Rs 5 crore of it, and ownership papers of 50 flats located in different parts of Patna, among other things. But in the next morning’s newspapers, this news was either missing or buried deep within as a single-column or brief item on an inside page.</p>
<p>“Not that it was not big news, it indeed was,” says the editor of an English daily in Bihar, “But, you see, that’s how it is.” The helplessness of this editor, who speaks anonymously, is a feeling shared by several other journalists. They talk ominously of controls placed on the media in Bihar. Yet, what is most striking about this awkward truth of the state is the determination with which this ‘control’ is being exercised on the media. It is a carrot-and-stick mechanism that is unparalleled in the modern history of Bihar.</i></p>
<p>What this tells us is that that our various governments have a number of tools at their disposal for controlling dissent.   In our middle-class obsession with internet censorship, we should not forget the others.  Personally, I think internet censorship may not even be the most important one.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Poet of Romance and Revolution by nc naidu</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2011/05/12/sohail-hashmir-on-faiz-ahmed-faiz-the-poet-of-romance-and-revolution/#comment-29730</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nc naidu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 15:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=7730#comment-29730</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No marxism, he is  a poet he felt for one all and wrote about one and all, let us not politicalise him by called him leftist, suffering and being a under- dog is not the territory or property of marxist alone, Faiz was a humanism he mirrored  what he saw and it literally leads you to the depth, not stopping you at the surface.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No marxism, he is  a poet he felt for one all and wrote about one and all, let us not politicalise him by called him leftist, suffering and being a under- dog is not the territory or property of marxist alone, Faiz was a humanism he mirrored  what he saw and it literally leads you to the depth, not stopping you at the surface.</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;The more they censor the internet the bigger we become&#8221; &#8211; An interview of Anonymous India by suresh</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/06/01/the-more-they-censor-the-internet-the-bigger-we-become-an-interview-of-anonymous-india/#comment-29729</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[suresh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 15:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=13013#comment-29729</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I agree with the objective of resisting censorship, I am not sure I want this group defending my freedom(s).  Sample what they say:

&lt;i&gt;We have cops beating up protesters. Do they get arrested for using the wrong means for *whatever* ends? The fact is that the government sabotages dissent.&lt;/i&gt;

So, one crime justifies another?  That aside, what is the government of India being compared to?  The Nazis?  The British raj?   If the space for dissent was non-existent or close to it, there&#039;d be a point to adopting such tactics.  However,  we are not there as yet.

&lt;i&gt;Defacement gets the message out to all users of the Internet fast. Think of it as wildfire, you hack a Web site and one person finds out. That one person then tells another person and from that you now have the message spreading.&lt;/i&gt;

And what is that message?  That it is okay to hack and deface web sites provided you can give a positive spin to it?  Once you go down this route, then you cannot prevent others from employing similar tactics in defence of causes that &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; may not find appealing.   The end result may be something that leaves all of us worse-off.

At independence we inherited a pile of censorship laws from the British raj.   One would have thought that over time we would get rid of them.  Not only have we not done so, we have added to them.  Some of them are just insane.   This is what &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mallikasarabhai.com/js16.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mallika Sarabhai says&lt;/a&gt; about -- oh, yes, the shining state -- Gujarat:

&lt;i&gt;You may or may not know that Gujarat is one of the very few stats in this country which has its own prude system for theatre – over and above the guidelines for performances laid down by the Center.   Each public presentation of a play needs a script approval. NO guidelines are provided. But an unsees set of eyes and unseen minds arbitrate, and often arbitrate as late as a few hours before a performance, to decide on the fate of the play.

A few years ago there was a celebrated play on Maulana Azad touring India. The then PM Vajpayee declared it to be one of the best plays he had seen in a decade. We were going to present it at Natarani. The cast and crew had arrived. The script had been with the authority for weeks. And then the axe fell, on the afternoon of the show. “AISA koi Miyaka natak thode kar sakte ho?” No written fatwa, just a verbal brush off. The distinguished cast stood outside the gats and turned away the thronging audience with a gentle – permission has not been granted!

Three years ago, when Darpana started its nationwide student motivation project with UNSUNI, both the Hindi and English script went to the SNA. One of the real characters portrayed in the play is Narayani Amma, a manual scavenger from the south who has since become a fiery activist. In her own words she talks of the stink from the skin when one carries human excreta on the head every single day. But he censors in Gujarat had their own take on it. Narayani was disallowed from saying “Tatti” in Hindi but allowed to say “shit” in English! Our sensibilities are offended by a woman who  carries human shit saying the word shit, but we remain unbothered by the fact that she has to carry shit!

A few years  ago, I am told, a local theatre company was producing a play called Sambandh. The script came back with a note, “Approved as long as the character called Sophia’s name is changed. There is an activist called Sophia who might object”! Wah Sophia Khan. The censors are afraid you will make trouble!

And so back to our Aktors Theater Festival. They have had two innocuous plays cancelled. In the first, an ugly woman who is unable to get married and is insulted by a string of suitors,  gets into a sexual relationship with an elderly neighbour and then decides that as society will never leave her alone, commits suicide.  Alas not an uncommon or unheard of incident in real life. Censored because it will disturb the ”suruchi” of the audience. The second has a hero with a physical defct, whose girlfriend leaves him to get married to someone else. He spends the play imagining the violence he will commit on her and her new husband, till in the end he admits that it is in fact he himself who has sent her off with another man. Censored because “it will incite violence”.&lt;/i&gt;

Sadly, Gujarat is by no means the exception.  This lunacy seems prevalent in all states and in all political parties.  We have to fight censorship alright and the fight is not going to be easy.   In my opinion,  though, tactics like those advocated by &lt;i&gt;Anonymous India&lt;/i&gt; are not going to be helpful.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree with the objective of resisting censorship, I am not sure I want this group defending my freedom(s).  Sample what they say:</p>
<p><i>We have cops beating up protesters. Do they get arrested for using the wrong means for *whatever* ends? The fact is that the government sabotages dissent.</i></p>
<p>So, one crime justifies another?  That aside, what is the government of India being compared to?  The Nazis?  The British raj?   If the space for dissent was non-existent or close to it, there&#8217;d be a point to adopting such tactics.  However,  we are not there as yet.</p>
<p><i>Defacement gets the message out to all users of the Internet fast. Think of it as wildfire, you hack a Web site and one person finds out. That one person then tells another person and from that you now have the message spreading.</i></p>
<p>And what is that message?  That it is okay to hack and deface web sites provided you can give a positive spin to it?  Once you go down this route, then you cannot prevent others from employing similar tactics in defence of causes that <i>you</i> may not find appealing.   The end result may be something that leaves all of us worse-off.</p>
<p>At independence we inherited a pile of censorship laws from the British raj.   One would have thought that over time we would get rid of them.  Not only have we not done so, we have added to them.  Some of them are just insane.   This is what <a href="http://www.mallikasarabhai.com/js16.html" rel="nofollow">Mallika Sarabhai says</a> about &#8212; oh, yes, the shining state &#8212; Gujarat:</p>
<p><i>You may or may not know that Gujarat is one of the very few stats in this country which has its own prude system for theatre – over and above the guidelines for performances laid down by the Center.   Each public presentation of a play needs a script approval. NO guidelines are provided. But an unsees set of eyes and unseen minds arbitrate, and often arbitrate as late as a few hours before a performance, to decide on the fate of the play.</p>
<p>A few years ago there was a celebrated play on Maulana Azad touring India. The then PM Vajpayee declared it to be one of the best plays he had seen in a decade. We were going to present it at Natarani. The cast and crew had arrived. The script had been with the authority for weeks. And then the axe fell, on the afternoon of the show. “AISA koi Miyaka natak thode kar sakte ho?” No written fatwa, just a verbal brush off. The distinguished cast stood outside the gats and turned away the thronging audience with a gentle – permission has not been granted!</p>
<p>Three years ago, when Darpana started its nationwide student motivation project with UNSUNI, both the Hindi and English script went to the SNA. One of the real characters portrayed in the play is Narayani Amma, a manual scavenger from the south who has since become a fiery activist. In her own words she talks of the stink from the skin when one carries human excreta on the head every single day. But he censors in Gujarat had their own take on it. Narayani was disallowed from saying “Tatti” in Hindi but allowed to say “shit” in English! Our sensibilities are offended by a woman who  carries human shit saying the word shit, but we remain unbothered by the fact that she has to carry shit!</p>
<p>A few years  ago, I am told, a local theatre company was producing a play called Sambandh. The script came back with a note, “Approved as long as the character called Sophia’s name is changed. There is an activist called Sophia who might object”! Wah Sophia Khan. The censors are afraid you will make trouble!</p>
<p>And so back to our Aktors Theater Festival. They have had two innocuous plays cancelled. In the first, an ugly woman who is unable to get married and is insulted by a string of suitors,  gets into a sexual relationship with an elderly neighbour and then decides that as society will never leave her alone, commits suicide.  Alas not an uncommon or unheard of incident in real life. Censored because it will disturb the ”suruchi” of the audience. The second has a hero with a physical defct, whose girlfriend leaves him to get married to someone else. He spends the play imagining the violence he will commit on her and her new husband, till in the end he admits that it is in fact he himself who has sent her off with another man. Censored because “it will incite violence”.</i></p>
<p>Sadly, Gujarat is by no means the exception.  This lunacy seems prevalent in all states and in all political parties.  We have to fight censorship alright and the fight is not going to be easy.   In my opinion,  though, tactics like those advocated by <i>Anonymous India</i> are not going to be helpful.</p>
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		<title>Comment on KK Aziz and the Coffee House of Lahore: Chris Moffat by Ibrahim Khan</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/06/01/kk-aziz-and-the-coffee-house-of-lahore-chris-moffat/#comment-29728</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ibrahim Khan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 14:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=13000#comment-29728</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A beautiful piece of literature!  Thank you for taking us through memory lane!! Similar pieces on historic and literary places are greatly needed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A beautiful piece of literature!  Thank you for taking us through memory lane!! Similar pieces on historic and literary places are greatly needed.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ambedkar’s Cartoon and the Caste question: Rajkumar by Ramesh Narendrarai Desai</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/05/31/ambedkars-cartoon-and-the-caste-question-rajkumar/#comment-29725</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ramesh Narendrarai Desai]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 11:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=12996#comment-29725</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I saw the cartoon in question. Ambedkar is shown riding a snail. He has a whip in his hand. Behind him is shown Nehru, also with a whip. One can interpret this cartoon as both Ambedkar and Nehru trying to hurry up a creature that is not built to race - in this case, the constitution of India which requires careful thought which in turn, takes its own time. One can also interpret this as Ambedkar not wielding the whip as much as required, necessitating Nehru&#039;s urging the snail and/or Ambedkar with one more whip. The cartoon like an abstract art work can be interpreted in more than one way. It depends on the viewer&#039;s mindset how he interprets it. A cartoon is very much a part of political discourse in any society except perhaps for totalitarian ones like fascist or communist ones. Even here, propagandists make use of cartoons to help disseminate their views. A cartoon also gives a public figure feedback on how he is perceived by people other than his hangers-on. A student of political science, in my view should be exposed to cartoons as they are very much a part of the political discourse. A chapter on cartoons, their purpose, the variety of ways in intertation etc should be included rather than banish cartoons. All impatient people want quick results, their haste many times ruining the chances of attaining their objective. Perhaps this was K Shankar&#039;s idea behind the Ambedkar-nehru cartoon. 
Ramesh Narendrarai Desai]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw the cartoon in question. Ambedkar is shown riding a snail. He has a whip in his hand. Behind him is shown Nehru, also with a whip. One can interpret this cartoon as both Ambedkar and Nehru trying to hurry up a creature that is not built to race &#8211; in this case, the constitution of India which requires careful thought which in turn, takes its own time. One can also interpret this as Ambedkar not wielding the whip as much as required, necessitating Nehru&#8217;s urging the snail and/or Ambedkar with one more whip. The cartoon like an abstract art work can be interpreted in more than one way. It depends on the viewer&#8217;s mindset how he interprets it. A cartoon is very much a part of political discourse in any society except perhaps for totalitarian ones like fascist or communist ones. Even here, propagandists make use of cartoons to help disseminate their views. A cartoon also gives a public figure feedback on how he is perceived by people other than his hangers-on. A student of political science, in my view should be exposed to cartoons as they are very much a part of the political discourse. A chapter on cartoons, their purpose, the variety of ways in intertation etc should be included rather than banish cartoons. All impatient people want quick results, their haste many times ruining the chances of attaining their objective. Perhaps this was K Shankar&#8217;s idea behind the Ambedkar-nehru cartoon.<br />
Ramesh Narendrarai Desai</p>
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		<title>Comment on ’बिगड़ैल बच्चे की खोज में’: हिमांशु पंड्या by आशुतोष कुमार</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/05/27/%e0%a4%ac%e0%a4%bf%e0%a4%97%e0%a4%a1%e0%a4%bc%e0%a5%88%e0%a4%b2-%e0%a4%ac%e0%a4%9a%e0%a5%8d%e0%a4%9a%e0%a5%87-%e0%a4%95%e0%a5%80-%e0%a4%96%e0%a5%8b%e0%a4%9c-%e0%a4%ae%e0%a5%87%e0%a4%82/#comment-29722</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[आशुतोष कुमार]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 09:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=12959#comment-29722</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[आप ने वह सवाल उठाया है , जो इस सिलसिले में असली सवाल है .शायद इसी लिए आक्रामक तेवरों को रक्षात्मक होना पड़ा है . वह सवाल यह है उत्पीड़ितों के शिक्षाशास्त्र की धुरी क्या होती है -अनालोचनात्मक श्रद्धा या आलोचनात्मक जिज्ञासा ? इस सवाल का जवाब आसान है , लेकिन उसे &#039;&#039;किताबी करुणा&#039;&#039; (अपराध बोध -ग्रस्त गैरदलित लेखक ) और &#039;&#039;खिताबी आक्रोश &#039;&#039;( अंध- अस्मितावादी दलित लेखक ) ने उलझा दिया है ..]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>आप ने वह सवाल उठाया है , जो इस सिलसिले में असली सवाल है .शायद इसी लिए आक्रामक तेवरों को रक्षात्मक होना पड़ा है . वह सवाल यह है उत्पीड़ितों के शिक्षाशास्त्र की धुरी क्या होती है -अनालोचनात्मक श्रद्धा या आलोचनात्मक जिज्ञासा ? इस सवाल का जवाब आसान है , लेकिन उसे &#8221;किताबी करुणा&#8221; (अपराध बोध -ग्रस्त गैरदलित लेखक ) और &#8221;खिताबी आक्रोश &#8221;( अंध- अस्मितावादी दलित लेखक ) ने उलझा दिया है ..</p>
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		<title>Comment on Unpacking India&#8217;s Internet Censorship Debate by Anonymous shares downloadable masks for 9 June protest &#124; Firstpost</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/05/01/unpacking-indias-internet-censorship-debate/#comment-29720</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous shares downloadable masks for 9 June protest &#124; Firstpost]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 08:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=12543#comment-29720</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Shivan Vij on Kafila.org, highlights that the latest crackdown on Vimeo and PirateBay is nothing new, but is in fact an action that is fully consistent with the past actions of the government of India who have been blocking websites for some time now. They did so informally by blocking Dawn.com, website of the Pakistani newspaper Dawn, during the Kargil war in 1999. They did so again to the webpage of a militant group in the northeast, on the website of the Yahoo! Groups mailing list service. And again in 2006, when they blocked over 20 websites, some of them for no apparent reason. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Shivan Vij on Kafila.org, highlights that the latest crackdown on Vimeo and PirateBay is nothing new, but is in fact an action that is fully consistent with the past actions of the government of India who have been blocking websites for some time now. They did so informally by blocking Dawn.com, website of the Pakistani newspaper Dawn, during the Kargil war in 1999. They did so again to the webpage of a militant group in the northeast, on the website of the Yahoo! Groups mailing list service. And again in 2006, when they blocked over 20 websites, some of them for no apparent reason. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ambedkar’s Cartoon and the Caste question: Rajkumar by shama</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/05/31/ambedkars-cartoon-and-the-caste-question-rajkumar/#comment-29718</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[shama]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 06:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=12996#comment-29718</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This article is in my opinion is  &#039;ethically, morally and pedagogically flawed and mischievous to the core&#039; . It is  rhetorical, has no understanding of contextual differentiation, no possibility of dialogue and engagement ,  no strategic value either.  The arguments are deeply problematic , irrational, illogical and not even persuasive on emotive grounds except for providing ingredients for the most dangerous rabble rousing - one thought only the right specialised in such pamphleteering and provocation. It reminds one of the perverseness of arguments saying a &#039;women is always right no matter what the circumstances&#039;, &#039; a dalit is always to be understood only as a victim of upper caste oppression&#039; . The tyranny of this kind of rhetoric unfortunately is that by promoting a crude, simplistic understanding it does more harm to the cause it promotes, besides denying the &#039;oppressed&#039; any agency and possibility of mounting effective critiques. Please refer to the other articles - on kafila on &lt;a href=&quot;http://kafila.org/2012/05/31/humiliation-condemned-to-remain-hurt-notes-from-a-talk-by-gopal-guru-parth-pratim-shil-ankita-pandey/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;gopal guru&#039;s talk &lt;/a&gt;and the one on  &#039;bathani tola controversy&#039; by &lt;a href=&quot;http://kractivist.wordpress.com/2012/05/31/bathani-tola-and-the-cartoon-controversy/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;anand teltumbde at kractivist. &lt;/a&gt;On second thoughts dont bother - this article precludes any possibility of even the ability to engage with the power of those voices,  while it lacks the nuance of &lt;a href=&quot;http://roundtableindia.co.in/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=5130:inside-the-mind-of-one-fanatic-dalit-a-cartoon-controversy-i-&amp;catid=119:feature&amp;Itemid=132&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;anoop kumar&#039;s position.&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article is in my opinion is  &#8216;ethically, morally and pedagogically flawed and mischievous to the core&#8217; . It is  rhetorical, has no understanding of contextual differentiation, no possibility of dialogue and engagement ,  no strategic value either.  The arguments are deeply problematic , irrational, illogical and not even persuasive on emotive grounds except for providing ingredients for the most dangerous rabble rousing &#8211; one thought only the right specialised in such pamphleteering and provocation. It reminds one of the perverseness of arguments saying a &#8216;women is always right no matter what the circumstances&#8217;, &#8216; a dalit is always to be understood only as a victim of upper caste oppression&#8217; . The tyranny of this kind of rhetoric unfortunately is that by promoting a crude, simplistic understanding it does more harm to the cause it promotes, besides denying the &#8216;oppressed&#8217; any agency and possibility of mounting effective critiques. Please refer to the other articles &#8211; on kafila on <a href="http://kafila.org/2012/05/31/humiliation-condemned-to-remain-hurt-notes-from-a-talk-by-gopal-guru-parth-pratim-shil-ankita-pandey/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">gopal guru&#8217;s talk </a>and the one on  &#8216;bathani tola controversy&#8217; by <a href="http://kractivist.wordpress.com/2012/05/31/bathani-tola-and-the-cartoon-controversy/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">anand teltumbde at kractivist. </a>On second thoughts dont bother &#8211; this article precludes any possibility of even the ability to engage with the power of those voices,  while it lacks the nuance of <a href="http://roundtableindia.co.in/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=5130:inside-the-mind-of-one-fanatic-dalit-a-cartoon-controversy-i-&amp;catid=119:feature&amp;Itemid=132" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">anoop kumar&#8217;s position.</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Ambedkar’s Cartoon and the Caste question: Rajkumar by Sushma</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/05/31/ambedkars-cartoon-and-the-caste-question-rajkumar/#comment-29713</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sushma]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 04:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=12996#comment-29713</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rajkumar, some of your points really made me think of the cartoon in a new way, for example, when you say that Dalit children are routinely physically punished by teachers for &quot;being bad students&quot;, and that the whip invokes those memories and continuing experiences. I can also see how the Dalit protests and outrage over the cartoon are in some sense an announcement of &quot;their long overdue arrival&quot; and &quot;a great sign for Indian democracy&quot;. 
I just have a quibble with the overstatements which paint &quot;upper castes&quot; as a monolithic community that oppose reservations etc. Just as this issue has revealed a vibrant &quot;Dalit&quot; community in debate and disagreement with one another, surely you are aware that &quot;upper caste&quot; academics are not one monolithic block either? Surely you know of sustained efforts by upper caste academics in solidarity with militant Dalit initiatives, that are pushing for full implementation of reservations, not to mention protesting at atrocities on Dalits and so on?
What is the strategic gain, I guess I dont understand, of painting this black and white picture in which no alliances are possible, it would appear, between non-Dalits and Dalits? Especially when a large number of non-Dalits have already been strongly influenced by Dalit politics and Dalit intellectual work that have completely changed Indian democracy?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rajkumar, some of your points really made me think of the cartoon in a new way, for example, when you say that Dalit children are routinely physically punished by teachers for &#8220;being bad students&#8221;, and that the whip invokes those memories and continuing experiences. I can also see how the Dalit protests and outrage over the cartoon are in some sense an announcement of &#8220;their long overdue arrival&#8221; and &#8220;a great sign for Indian democracy&#8221;.<br />
I just have a quibble with the overstatements which paint &#8220;upper castes&#8221; as a monolithic community that oppose reservations etc. Just as this issue has revealed a vibrant &#8220;Dalit&#8221; community in debate and disagreement with one another, surely you are aware that &#8220;upper caste&#8221; academics are not one monolithic block either? Surely you know of sustained efforts by upper caste academics in solidarity with militant Dalit initiatives, that are pushing for full implementation of reservations, not to mention protesting at atrocities on Dalits and so on?<br />
What is the strategic gain, I guess I dont understand, of painting this black and white picture in which no alliances are possible, it would appear, between non-Dalits and Dalits? Especially when a large number of non-Dalits have already been strongly influenced by Dalit politics and Dalit intellectual work that have completely changed Indian democracy?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mangoes and me by aj</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/05/30/mangoes-and-me/#comment-29704</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[aj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 20:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=12987#comment-29704</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&#039;Beganpalli&#039;=&#039;Baiganapalli&#039;=Banganapalle (aka benishaan), Kurnool Dist., A.P (maybe thats where this &#039;meaty&#039; variety was first grafted)

What does it cost to produce/market &#039;organic&#039; mango?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Beganpalli&#8217;='Baiganapalli&#8217;=Banganapalle (aka benishaan), Kurnool Dist., A.P (maybe thats where this &#8216;meaty&#8217; variety was first grafted)</p>
<p>What does it cost to produce/market &#8216;organic&#8217; mango?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Green and Saffron: Hindu Nationalism and Indian Environmental Politics by aj</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2011/11/25/green-and-saffron-hindu-nationalism-and-indian-environmental-politics/#comment-29700</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[aj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 19:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=10561#comment-29700</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;while the recognition of &quot;bio-divinity&quot; is a feature of many religious traditions, including Hinduism, this is to be distinguished from religious environmentalism which involves the conscious application of religious ideas to modem concerns about the global environment&quot;

worth a serious read:

http://www.jstor.org/stable/3270584]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;while the recognition of &#8220;bio-divinity&#8221; is a feature of many religious traditions, including Hinduism, this is to be distinguished from religious environmentalism which involves the conscious application of religious ideas to modem concerns about the global environment&#8221;</p>
<p>worth a serious read:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/3270584" rel="nofollow">http://www.jstor.org/stable/3270584</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Ambedkar’s Cartoon and the Caste question: Rajkumar by aj</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/05/31/ambedkars-cartoon-and-the-caste-question-rajkumar/#comment-29698</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[aj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 18:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=12996#comment-29698</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some people delight in wielding the whip (&#039;the only way to get things done&#039;)! 
_ bad taste/form, then or now]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some people delight in wielding the whip (&#8216;the only way to get things done&#8217;)!<br />
_ bad taste/form, then or now</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ambedkar’s Cartoon and the Caste question: Rajkumar by janaki</title>
		<link>http://kafila.org/2012/05/31/ambedkars-cartoon-and-the-caste-question-rajkumar/#comment-29683</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[janaki]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 12:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kafila.org/?p=12996#comment-29683</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[regarding the claim that the making of the constitution was delayed being a personalised view and not reflective of some of the perceptions of the constitution making process of that time, here is Ambedkar from his historic speech on 25 Nov 1949: 

&quot;In its final form, the Draft Constitution contains 395 articles and 8 Schedules. The total number of amendments to the Draft Constitution tabled was approximately 7,635. Of them, the total number of amendments actually moved in the House were 2,473...I mention these facts because at one stage it was being said that the Assembly had taken too long a time to finish its work, that it was going on leisurely and wasting public money. It was said to be a case of Nero fiddling while Rome was burning. Is there any justification for this complaint? Let us note the time consumed by Constituent Assemblies in other countries appointed for framing their Constitutions... It is true that we have taken more time than what the American or South African Conventions did. But we have not taken more time than the Canadian Convention and much less than the Australian Convention. In making comparisons on the basis of time consumed, two things must be remembered. One is that the Constitutions of America, Canada, South Africa and Australia are much smaller than ours. Our Constitution as I said contains 395 articles while the American has just seven articles, the first four of which are divided into sections which total up to 21, the Canadian has 147, Australian 128 and South African 153 sections. The second thing to be remembered is that the makers of the Constitutions of America, Canada, Australia and South Africa did not have to face the problem of amendments. They were passed as moved. On the other hand, this Constituent Assembly had to deal with as many as 2,473 amendments. Having regard to these facts the charge of dilatoriness seems to me quite unfounded and this Assembly may well congratulate itself for having accomplished so formidable a task in so short a time...&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>regarding the claim that the making of the constitution was delayed being a personalised view and not reflective of some of the perceptions of the constitution making process of that time, here is Ambedkar from his historic speech on 25 Nov 1949: </p>
<p>&#8220;In its final form, the Draft Constitution contains 395 articles and 8 Schedules. The total number of amendments to the Draft Constitution tabled was approximately 7,635. Of them, the total number of amendments actually moved in the House were 2,473&#8230;I mention these facts because at one stage it was being said that the Assembly had taken too long a time to finish its work, that it was going on leisurely and wasting public money. It was said to be a case of Nero fiddling while Rome was burning. Is there any justification for this complaint? Let us note the time consumed by Constituent Assemblies in other countries appointed for framing their Constitutions&#8230; It is true that we have taken more time than what the American or South African Conventions did. But we have not taken more time than the Canadian Convention and much less than the Australian Convention. In making comparisons on the basis of time consumed, two things must be remembered. One is that the Constitutions of America, Canada, South Africa and Australia are much smaller than ours. Our Constitution as I said contains 395 articles while the American has just seven articles, the first four of which are divided into sections which total up to 21, the Canadian has 147, Australian 128 and South African 153 sections. The second thing to be remembered is that the makers of the Constitutions of America, Canada, Australia and South Africa did not have to face the problem of amendments. They were passed as moved. On the other hand, this Constituent Assembly had to deal with as many as 2,473 amendments. Having regard to these facts the charge of dilatoriness seems to me quite unfounded and this Assembly may well congratulate itself for having accomplished so formidable a task in so short a time&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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